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 Post subject: Test/study: Power stat
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:54 pm 
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Here is a study of the Power stat. This is aimed at peeps approaching higher levels who wonder what the right balance of power and skill might be. The right answer, in my opinion, is that within a rather large range, it does not matter.

This study started out by testing various power values from 20 to 120, keeping other stats constant. Here are those results:

Image

You can see an area, highlighted in yellow above, where the power stat seems to be paying off well. Then after that, one begins to see diminishing returns for each 10 stats allocated. Of course, as the value goes higher, adding 10 stats is adding a far lower %age gain to power.

So, for the next test, we wanted to talk a closer look at the highlighted area -- to test power in smaller increments. Here are those results:

Image

Again, we have highlighted an area where the power stat seems to be paying off well. Fot the final test, I used smaller steps still, but with a twist. The motivation was the most common question I am asked by lower levels: "What should I set power and skill at?"

So, for the test I presume one had 172 stats to allocate to power and skill, which I admit is a very hgih level player. Anyway, at each step, I increase power by 2 and decrease skill by 2. Also, I had to change to my Tempest here, as it was taking me too many hours in the range trying to hit perfect shots with the fast Hurri bar. Here are those results:

Image

Notes
  • For Table 1 and 2, a Helios (+1 power) 2 piece was used.
  • In the test for Table 3, 2 different balls were used, to help reduce the use of F/Pedora: a no stat ball and a +1 skill ball. Both were 2 piece.
  • For Table 1 and 2, the average of 3 perfect, or close to perfect shots was used. This was deemed to be ok, as we were only trying to zero-in on the proper range to test more precisely.
  • For Table 3, the average of 2 perfect shots was used, as well as 4 or 5 other near perfect shots for a reality-check. A reminder: Perfect means 100% and 0%, verified by a screen maginifier and "Nice Shot" message respectively.
  • re: equal values in table 3, such as 362.5. If the test shots yielded a distance that was within 1 yard of the previous value, the previous value was used. There is no difference whatsoever between a 362 and a 363 yard shot in the range, given the 98%-100% variability. I felt it best to avoid any false ranking based on a .5 or 1 yard difference in results.
  • I had to stop the testing for table 3 at 39/133, because I ran out of F/Pedora and Haoma. Would be interesting to see what the values would have been for 41, 43, adn 45 power.
  • Full 3 was set using Shift-<RightArrow>
  • 6 F/Pedora and 2 Haoma II were used during this test. Further testing on hold until I can re-stock at reasonable prices or receive few more donations.
  • Thanks to CHICUBS for the F/Pedora donation during this test and to Scratchin_McGroin for his donation.

Cheers, A


Last edited by A_In_NS on Sat May 07, 2011 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Test/study: Power stat
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:01 pm 
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Nice. Looking at your skill test, which seemed to point to about an average of 1.04 something yards per skill point, judging by this test, around 50 power is optimal, since that puts it at about 1.2 yards gained per power point. Hrm. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Test/study: Power stat
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:20 pm 
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Its interesting to note in table 3 that power and skill were off-setting each other to provide the same distance (369 yards). I think this information further proves the general (35/45/XX power/impact/skill) school of thought.


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 Post subject: Re: Test/study: Power stat
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:52 pm 
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The results are so close for the setup tested, that one could say it makes very little difference what the power is from 30 to 40. That seems to be the area, not by accident, that most peeps settle on.

With another F/Pedora, I would have gone up 6 more points in power/-6 more of skill in increments of 2. I am guessing, there is precious little difference between using 33 power and 43 (or even 45) power for raw distance. Mind you, other flight characteristics might not desirable (i.e., bend and height).

ps: If I can get a couple of F/Pedora donations, and mostly donations or loans of NR drivers, I'd like to do an exhaustive test of 7 or 8 drivers, so mid-levels could see such a ranking.


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 Post subject: Re: Test/study: Power stat
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:32 pm 
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Another great test, well done.

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 Post subject: Re: Test/study: Power stat
PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 3:42 am 
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Nice study.

Appears to me this indicates that most high-skillers, as I have suspected, in fact have an unnecessary high skill attribute in relation to their other attributes. People go skill mad one could guess =).

Just as I had the opinion that people in general go too extreme in their pwr/imp build before they go high skill build and would probably in fact be better off to have their skill attribute significantly higher than the 40-45 range most people suggest keeping skill down to before swapping to high skill build.

And also when they do go high skill, it appear people in general seem to sacrifice to many points from impact and power. So to summarize, it seems like people tend to exaggerate these two builds so they become unnecessarily big gap between them, which also makes the transition from the pwr/imp build to the skill build extra demanding of course and without having any real benefit.

However what I do miss on this test is a column on table 3 with Tempest 4i neutral spin. Although of course the full 3 o'clock is the way to hit furthest for that club, all these monster sidespin shots are often not the best way to score a really low average score on most courses. So I would definitely argue that the neutral spin distance is also relevant, not to say even more relevant, at least for most non-Cad/Gleiger courses to vague what balance between skill and power attribute gives the best overall playing ability. Also I think the list ends with to low power attribute. I think it would be interesting to see the 41/131, 43/129, 45/127, 47/125, 49/123, 51/121 and 53/119 combinations as well, especially for the neutral spin.

PS. Yes I am aware of that skill appear to add distance even to neutral spin shots, but interesting to know still what combo of skill/power =172 gives most distance for a neutral spin shot...

gonutz1 wrote:
Nice. Looking at your skill test, which seemed to point to about an average of 1.04 something yards per skill point, judging by this test, around 50 power is optimal, since that puts it at about 1.2 yards gained per power point. Hrm. :mrgreen:


I agree. If anything these test suggest , it's that most high skillers have their power attribute unnecessarily low and would probably be better off with a less extreme skill build.

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Last edited by fulnegern on Sun Oct 25, 2009 5:27 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Test/study: Power stat
PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 5:07 am 
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Perfect timing with this test, just wondering how much I should put in power as my level starts to be in that point I should only go for skill :)

You should really have a break stacking pedo's/fedo's and then after you finish your research and show the results to people stack ah full of them and boom, you got a way to finance your studies! :)


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 Post subject: Re: Test/study: Power stat
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:42 pm 
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Hi A_In_AS,

I play Shot-Online from Korean server, but visit this forum from time to time to check out your work. Great stuff, BTW.

I think the most significant difference between Korean players and US players is how much you invest on power and impact.

Most of Korean players at level 90's and above put average of 40 to 42 power and impact of 44 to 49. It is very difficult to find anyone with less than 40 powers or over 50 impacts.

You wrote above that you ran out of pedora when you reached 39 power. If you get a chance I would really like to see what happens when you reach 41, 43 and 45 power.

Thank you always for your great post.


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 Post subject: Re: Test/study: Power stat
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:34 pm 
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I keep meaning to get back to the ongoing Power/Skill test that I started about 3 weeks ago.

The thing that holds me back is the knowledge that it requires many more hours in the range hitting "to the pixel" 100%/0% shots. As you can guess, this gets old really fast. After a few hours, you just wanna throw all your Pedora in the trash and go play.

Anyway, I have done some testing now in the 39-45 range. We are talking high level players here -- the level 95+ type with zods and the works.

My testing tells me that irons do not benefit beyond about 36-38 Power, while woods might gain maybe 1-1.5 yards going to Power in the 45 range. We are talking about straight trading of Power<-->Skill in this range.

BUT, there is the thing imo...

Let us assume that there is very little distance benefit going from, say, 37 Power to 45 Power. Let's just agree for the sake of this discussion that any gain would be a yard or so.

Given this, why would I put the stats into Power? Imo, it would be better to drop the Power back down to 37 (or whatever) and get the bend and height benefit from Skill. Height in particular, is an important benefit in almost every high level course.

What one is seeking, is the point at which Power ceases to give noticeable gains -- the point of diminishing returns. At that point, I think one is better served putting stats into Skill.

Cheers, A


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 Post subject: Re: Test/study: Power stat
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:21 pm 
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When is the next study coming out sir?

I would like a more scientific look at this difference in clubs. Maybe not as detailed, but even a wide variance, somewhat like I did.

As I previously stated (in a different thread), when I did testing way back when of 35 power 45 impact vs. 40pwr 45imp (with the rest of my stats going to skill), I noticed the 1w/3w benefited most from the latter and 5w/irons from the former. This would of course go against the conventional thinking in this game of woods need power irons need skill. I also did it quickly and couldn't be bothered doing it as thorough as you do, necessitating further study! :)

You could also do it relatively cheaply...say do 34 power 45 impact, and throw on a capricornus, and then for the other swap that with a leo and have 40 power 45 impact.


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 Post subject: Re: Test/study: Power stat
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:20 pm 
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Colt, I am 90% done the study u refer to. Pre-release, I would report to you that my testing indicates that woods might benefit by 1-2 yards, whereas irons do not.

Given this, I would see no reason to run 47 power (or whatever) over 10 points less of like 37 power. To give up 10 points of Skill for 10 of Power is not a good trade-off for 2 yards on a driver. In fact, it is a horrible trade-off imo. What you are giving up in shot height and bend is significant.


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 Post subject: Re: Test/study: Power stat
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:42 am 
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at the moment im a lvl 70 with 48 power 52 imp 50 skill and stam 10 . i have read your surveys with wonderment at such hard work and congradulate you on your dedication . i do not use zods or things like that although i have my lvl 51 irons and tormaline driver statted to the figures above i am also a wotan . the question is do different stats suit different characters with different clubs . im of the opinion that wotans relish a high impact simply because of the nature of the char . would i be right in that assumption


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 Post subject: Re: Test/study: Power stat
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:54 am 
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ptq wrote:
at the moment im a lvl 70 with 48 power 52 imp 50 skill and stam 10 . i have read your surveys with wonderment at such hard work and congradulate you on your dedication . i do not use zods or things like that although i have my lvl 51 irons and tormaline driver statted to the figures above i am also a wotan . the question is do different stats suit different characters with different clubs . im of the opinion that wotans relish a high impact simply because of the nature of the char . would i be right in that assumption


no


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 Post subject: Re: Test/study: Power stat
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:04 am 
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Posts: 141
Only difference between character models are starting stats and appearance. In all other aspects they play the same as each other given the same stats/clubs/golfball.


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 Post subject: Re: Test/study: Power stat
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:47 pm 
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Posts: 194
One question about Power....I am a level 82 and have a Skill build now. Using driver, my Power is 35. On certain Cad holes (#12, #15 for example) if I do not use a Power Drink, I cannot always reach the green/second fairway, but if I do use a Power Drink, I have no trouble reaching at all (probably a 5 to 10 yard advantage). Wouldn't that indicate that a 41 Power Stat is significantly better than a 35 Power stat?


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