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 Post subject: Shot Online Playing Myths (wedge bar speed added)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:05 am 
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A couple of these myths are in the context of "pre CTLs", but all of what is said below is still applicable.



Shot Online Playing Myths

The following is a list of myths or near-myths regarding Shot Online playing. It is only about playing – about shooting and putting – and not about other aspects of the game, such as fitting clubs or other activities off the field.

I’ll update this list from time to time with new myths.

As I say, some are near-myths, which refers to a something that is technically true, but to such an insignificant extent, that it may as well not be true. An example of a near-myth would be saying “Club XXX is longer than club YYY.”, when testing reveals that it is only .5 yards longer on average -- for all intents and purposes, they hit the same distance.

Finally, most of the assertions in this list have been tested. These are not opinions -- they are just prose reflecting math.

  1. There are magic stat thresholds.
    There are no magic stat thresholds that give you a sudden boost. Such an example would be expecting a sudden gain in distance when skill goes from say 99 to 101.

    As regards Skill stat, there is no magic threshold, but what does happen is it becomes increasingly more powerful as it gets higher. For example, adding 20 skill on top of 140 skill adds slightly more distance than adding 20 skill on top of 80.

    There are also levels above which one will see diminishing returns for a given stat, such as extremely high power or impact.)
  2. Tornado is the longest club in the game.(pre-CTL myth)
    I have posted tests that show Tornado is as long as any club, but it is misleading to claim it is the longest club in the game, as if it were alone at the top spot. For example, in irons, there is no noticeable difference in distance between Tempest, Tornado, and Hurricane. In woods, there is no difference between Tornado and Hybrid, and those are only a couple of yards longer than others.
    • Sub-myth: You can hit a Tornado past 105%
      Tornado hits past 105% will shank O.B. as much as other top clubs and more than Hurricanes. Regarding drivers, testing posted here indicates it shanks worse on hits past 105% than either Hurricane or Hybrid.
  3. Tempest fairway woods are not long.
    If speaking of distance only, the Tempest 3W and 5W are just about as long as any other fairway woods (pre-CTL and sockets). They will hit 2 to 3 yards less than Hybrid or Tornado, and as far as Hurricane. But... Tempest, like Hybrid woods, are not forgiving if you miss 0%, so missing 0% tends to lose more distance.
  4. 2009 clubs are longer or better than older version.
    There is no measurable difference in distance. The only difference is colour.
  5. 2010 clubs are longer or better than older version.
    See previous re: 2009. The 2010, like the 2009, are just re-skinned regular clubs. Of course, the default fittings have an effect, but the fact that they are 2010 means nothing.
  6. Fitting stats have more value than other stats.
    A stat is a stat is a stat. When holding a club, it does not matter whatsoever where your stats come from: fittings, zodiacs, clothes, drinks, or ball. All that matters are the numbers, not where they came from.
  7. Distance also comes from your level.
    Distance comes only from your stats and the type of clubs you are using.
  8. Hurricane irons are more accurate.
    Hurricane irons are no more accurate when barely missing 0%, than say, Tornado. What Hurricanes give you is “shank insurance”. A hurricane is less likely to shank on hits that miss 0% by a lot or hits that are past 105%.
  9. A +2 skill hat is better than a +2 impact hat. (for example)
    As regards clothing, a stat is a stat is a stat. You can buy whatever clothing you want, as long as it adds to Impact, Power, or Skill. Buy the clothing, put it on, apply a Haoma or Pedora, then adjust your stats as you desire. (This is less true for TP’s who have used the Fedora+, since they would need to use an expensive Fedora+ or Magicos after fitting the new clothing.)
  10. Some putters put ball in the hole better.
    All putters roll the ball the same. The only differences between putters is the distance they hit at a particular %age, the speed of the swing bar, and how they act on the green edge (i.e., shanking).
  11. Stamina helps with putting.
    I wish. lol
    No stats make the ball go in the hole better.
  12. Wind or weather affects putting.
    No effect whatsoever.
  13. Spin affects putting.
    No effect whatsoever.
  14. Woods like power; irons like skill.
    This is in the context of a high level player...
    Power helps everything. For a high level skill build, it is true that Power higher on woods than irons does help woods distance. However, the idea that you can hit irons and get good distance with Power of 30 or 28 or whatever (some low number), is a myth.
  15. Impact must be relative (i.e., above) Power.
    Impact stands alone and need not be relative to any other stat in some fixed relationship. One hears "Keeps Impact N above Power.", but this is not necessarily true. What peeps are really expressing here is keep your impact as high as you reasonably can while leveling. For higher levels, if one were very good at hitting 0%, one could run stats like 40 Power / 40 Impact and be as accurate as someone running 35 Power /40 Impact. (Thanks to gonutz1 for noting this one.)
  16. Low Power is bad in weather/wind.
    There is no relative difference in the wind and weather effect on distance, with low Power such as 20 versus a Power such as 30 or 40.
  17. Top/bottom spin affects a wood shot. (MunkeysUncle reminded us)
    Top and bottom spin have no effect on wood shots. Nor does it have any effect on the 3 iron or 4 iron. Top/bottom do not affect distance; nor do they affect height of shot.
  18. TP_Bomber (or whatever) hits farther into headwind
    The longest drivers in the game are Hybrid and Tornado (TP_Bomber is just a Tornado). Basis full side-spin hits, they all hit the same distance. This equality of performance does not change for weather/wind.
  19. Wedge slow-swing-bar X is slower than wedge slow-swing-bar Y[/size]
    A variant of this myth is "The TypeX SW bar is slower than the matching TypeX PW bar."

    The truth is, that all slow bar wedges are the same speed-- exactly the same. I'll list some of the slow-swing-bar clubs that have exactly the same swing bar speed:

    Werdandi wedge=CTL wedge=Hybrid wedge=Tempest wedge

    There are all the same, for all of the wedges of the types listed (the slow-swing-bar clubs). The Werdandi SW is the same as the Hybrid PW, the Tempest AW is the same as the CTL SW, and so on-- all the wedges, PW, AW, or SW, of all of these types use the same swing bar speed. This applies to all ground conditions (fairway, rough, or sand).


Last edited by A_In_NS on Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:22 am, edited 33 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Shot Online Playing Myths
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:46 am 
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Great Post !!!

It just answered a bunch of questions.

;)


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 Post subject: Re: Shot Online Playing Myths
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:19 am 
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Your posts are really awesome ainns. Thank you very much for all the effort you put into testing all those things. I read them all the time and it helps me alot. :)

Kriek lvl58 Hollid Server


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 Post subject: Re: Shot Online Playing Myths
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:43 pm 
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Yes .. some excellent work gone into debunking these myths.

One I'd like to see tested is the effect of stamina on shots played from the rough or sand.

Alot of players, including me, have fitted stamina to their wedges thinking that it improves the consistency of shots played from the rough.

Now, to be honest, I wouldn't have a clue whether it works or not ... OR if it does, at what level of stamina it really has a noticeable improvement on the result.

The testing methodology would require a wedge (probably Werdandi SW) which is clean and one with 8 stamina fitted (to get the maximum amount of stamina onto the club from a base level setup) .. and then add increments of 6 stamina stats with Taurus zods and testing the results .

How you get a consistent lie from the rough for all shots is the only issue (perhaps in the field practice hole) .. let me know if you have the time to do this test and/or have the tools to do it. If not, I should be able to help you out.


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 Post subject: Re: Shot Online Playing Myths
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:26 pm 
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the stamina test would be interesting. I've tried to test it quickly what multiplier i have for sand shots. With 2stamina screen said about 62%-82% and with 8stamina i think 64%-82% so you'd think it's not much more (~10% consistent only). But it appears it made a huge difference. With stamina 2 my shots were varieting from 46y to 54y and with stamina8 they were hitting simillar spot like i would be chipping out from fairway: 51,51,52 etc.
Check it yourself but don't be suprised when you do your best at rufus, but your stamina equals 2 and you dissapoint others with overpowered or underpowered shot. After using stamina 8 i finally can hit the ball where i want from the sand. I guess 8 isn't the magical number here, i just used 3 zodiacs to make my stam better.
If you can't afford one or you use other item enhancers, buy a vidar stamina drinks and use them for your sand shots.
Sorry for offtopic.

Anyway thx for telling us some untrue myths. I have one to be checked out that a hurricane driver hits longer than aeolos. I'm a level44 and i changed my driver from emerald aeolos(5,2) to hurri gold(1[+1],-1) and i couldn't hit further with it than with aeolos. I was shooting on driving range with no spin with 30 degrees and hurri were going about 1-3y shorter.

Of course no doubt that hurri is better, because aeolos are inaccurate drivers. While using it, I had to spent my stats on impact higher, while with hurri i can spent it in power/skill.

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 Post subject: Re: Shot Online Playing Myths
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:04 pm 
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About the power/skill thing (item m)

I wouldn't say its a myth, but a poorly explained strategy. Most people tend to play 10 impact over power so thats where people got the idea that 10pow is the 'ideal' on your woods.

In my opinion this is because you are trying to maximize the distance with your woods and maintain your accuracy with the irons. Therefore even if you start fitting your irons and woods at a lower level (still power/impact, not high skill) you can still maintain that high impact over power on your irons, and your woods can be more geared for distance.

The overall distance between the two fitting types at high levels is negligible (as proven by yourself ^_^) so it only serves to benefit newer players who might not understand fitting techniques to just fit woods power and irons skill.


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 Post subject: Re: Shot Online Playing Myths
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:37 pm 
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Biggest myth in the game, in my opinion, is that impact is relative to power. While it's good advice to suggest higher impact than power, since more impact always means more accuracy, having power higher than impact will not "magically" make your shots worse. I have tried going from 40 power 50 impact to 100 power and 50 impact, almost no difference in accuracy with any club. Impact seems to vary how much the ball goes offline, by a percentage of total distance. So if a shot that goes 300 yards goes off line by 2%, it goes about 6 yards offline. Using the same impact stat, a shot that goes 400 yards and 2% offline will go about 8 yards offline. In practice, adding to any stat that adds distance, be it power or skill, causes the ball to go farther offline with similar impact. With power, since it caps rather harshly with given distance, shows little sign of actually making shots inaccurate. I have tested "power vs impact" many a time, and not once has power increase caused a noticeable decrease in accuracy. I have a level 65 with 63 power and 43 impact, his accuracy is perfectly fine. I just hope this post makes sense to someone. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Shot Online Playing Myths
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:01 am 
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I sign gonutz´ post to 100%

I also found that you have to consider Imp and Pwr (and the other stats as well, of course) as seperate parameters.

It sure does help to have Imp over Pwr, but I think this is simply because you put noticable more points on Imp and so get a "better" value in total - especially on low-lvls.

You notice this very nicely once your Imp reaches 50-55 or more.
from that point on, it doesn´t make any diff (as far as I could notice) what your Pwr is.

1 Myth to Ainns:
The effect of Imp is not any noticeable wit Imp > 60

Cheers Matthias

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 Post subject: Re: Shot Online Playing Myths
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:12 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Shot Online Playing Myths
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:11 am 
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stuartmcl wrote:
Yes .. some excellent work gone into debunking these myths.

One I'd like to see tested is the effect of stamina on shots played from the rough or sand.


Excellent idea stuart. I will do this if I can get a couple of F/Pedora donations. Cheers, A


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 Post subject: Re: Shot Online Playing Myths
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:13 am 
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gonutz1 wrote:
Biggest myth in the game, in my opinion, is that impact is relative to power.


Forgot that one. Thanks bro-- will add it to list. --A


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 Post subject: Re: Shot Online Playing Myths
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:15 am 
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fodera wrote:
1 Myth to Ainns:
The effect of Imp is not any noticeable wit Imp > 60
Cheers Matthias


I thought about adding that one, but did not consider it a myth per se. As a non-myth statement, one can say that adding power after about 40 shows diminishing returns, and adding impact after about 55 shows diminishing returns.


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 Post subject: Re: Shot Online Playing Myths
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:53 pm 
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Hey gonutz1 -- how about fixing the potentially misleading statement in your nice club guide that Tornado is longest XXX in game. We know for drivers that hybrid and tornado are equally long. We know for irons, that tornado, tempest, hurricane are equally long.

Cheers, A


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 Post subject: Re: Shot Online Playing Myths
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:17 am 
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ainns wrote:
Hey gonutz1 -- how about fixing the potentially misleading statement in your nice club guide that Tornado is longest XXX in game. We know for drivers that hybrid and tornado are equally long. We know for irons, that tornado, tempest, hurricane are equally long.

Cheers, A

Lol, its a whole 2 yards difference according to my guide, when I compared them. :lol: But I fixed it anyway. :mrgreen: Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Shot Online Playing Myths
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:44 pm 
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Hi I have -25 HC atm and am trying to improve to -26. I have a level 65 belz and am wanting to change my stats. I have been considering changing my stats for a while but have been unsure how.

Gonutz you said you have 43 impact 60 something power. I am curious was that an exaggeration?? Or does that actually work.

If so I have 160 stat points to use. Can you please tell me what power/impact build I can run that will still have reasonable accuracy but maximum distance.

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