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 Post subject: Stamina testing (rough, sand, etc.)
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:07 pm 
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There is no documentation on how rough/sand shots really work, and if you ask, you will get nothing. What we know we know by observing and extrapolating -- making educated guesses basically.

What I say here will probably boost the market for Stamina Drinks :). If it does not, I have not explained very well the concepts to follow...

The Theory

Rough and sand shots are not meant to be as predictable as fairway shots. They contain an element of randomness. When you see a lie condition like 82%-100%, this is telling you that the shot could go 82% of the normal distance or 100% of the normal distance. The most likely result, the most likely distance for a 100% perfect hit, is toward the lower number -- the 82%.

So, unless your stamina is quite high, like above 20, then the most likely result of shooting out of this 82% rough is a shot that goes just over 82% of the normal distance. Most players run with very low stamina.


What determines the xx and yy in xx%-yy%

Two factors:
  • The type of rough or sand (there are different grades)
  • Your stamina stat – the higher your stamina stat, the better the percentages. For example, instead of 78%-100% rough, with higher stamina, it may show as 83%-100%. It is easier to predict a shot from the latter.

There are many possible percentages. Also, although we speak of rough throughout the rest of this post, what we are saying applies equally to sand.

So, if you were to drink a Stamina Drink when you land in the rough or sand, chances are very good you can improve the percentage displayed if you run with the normal stamina (very low).

Playing Rough

The key is predicting the distance. It is impossible to predict with great accuracy the distance a shot will travel from the rough, unless you run VERY high stamina, which is not a good thing to do.

The best you can do is play the averages and hope for the best.

As we will see, the higher your stamina, the easier it is to predict the result (i.e., the range of results is a smaller range) and the farther the shot will travel.

Some test results

I ran 4 sets of tests for the same shot. Only the stamina varied for each test. I tested stamina at: 6, 12, 24, and 47. Here are the summarized results:

Image

The 2nd green line shows how the rough %age changed as I changed the stamina. Understand that all shots were form the exact same spot.

The most interesting line, in terms of learning to play rough/sand, is the last one. It shows the distance range as a percentage of the target distance. This tells you directly how well, on average, you can predict the distance of your shot.

We can see a clear trend as stamina increases. The range of results diminishes (the difference between the shortest shot and the longest shot). We also see that the shots go farther. Take a look at this graphic:

Image

All shots taken are shown as green points. The distance traveled was between 29 and 40 yards (the vertical axis). This graphs the trend. We see that as stamina increases: (a) the range of possible results narrows and (b) the shots go farther.

I would guess most people play with stamina between 4 and 12. If you run very low stamina, I would think it well worthwhile to take a Stamina Drink when you land in the rough/sand.

I did these tests using a clean Werdandi SW (default of +2 all stats). The stats other than Stamina were: Power 35, Impact 50, and Skill 114.

Cads #1 Hard Rough

The following list shows how the percentages displayed for the Hard Rough on Cads #1 changes as stamina is increased. This was done for fun, just to see how much stamina it took to make the percentage change.

Stamina, %age of Hard Rough
4, 61%
9, 62%
10, 62%
13, 63%
15, 63%
16, 63%
18, 64%
19, 64%
21, 64%
22, 64%
24, 65%
25, 65%
27, 65%
31, 65%
33, 66%
37, 66%

The role of Impact

I did a test with fairly high impact and low impact, but there was no measurable difference in distance for short rough shots. Both were performed using 50% SW shots. In both cases, the constant stats were power 35, stamina 12, and skill 114. The two impact levels tested were 50 and 38.

Fatigue as a factor

I did some tests with the same setup we used to test the SW at 50%, but with a high fatigue level of 3300, which is about 33% along the fatigue bar I figure. Results were not noticeably different that the test run with zero fatigue.

Should you add to your Stamina stat

No. Stay out of the rough/sand. If you get in, play the averages. Use the stats for accuracy (Imp) or distance (Power/Skill).

Other notes
  • I used 5 F/Pedora and 2 Haoma II during the testing sessions on the Practice Hole. Thanks again for the F/Pedora donations. Contributions came from jet750, StarGate, JESTER_, and T_U_C_K_O.
  • It is harder to control the conditions on the Practice Hole. You get the wind and weather it chooses. All one can do is enter/exit/enter repeatedly until one gets benign conditions. Sometimes this takes many tries. Anyway, all tests were done with no more than .2 wind in the face or at the back, in 22-27 degrees.


Cheers, A


Last edited by A_In_NS on Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:55 am, edited 6 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Stamina testing
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:52 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 4:00 pm
Posts: 429
This was a very interesting read .. really liked the methodology and the presentation of the results.

After reading this, it seems that stamina only starts to make a noticeable difference at 30-40, which is way out of reach of most players (unless you sacrifice alot of distance).

However for those that can afford it, 3 x plus 4 all stat zods , a fully fitted werdandi wedge (+10) stamina clothes (+5) a venus ball (+4) using a stamina drink (+6) you can almost get to 40 without any real loss of power.

Nice post!


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 Post subject: Re: Stamina testing
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:04 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:24 pm
Posts: 1
The images with the tables are down. Anybody please, can repost them??


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 Post subject: Re: Stamina testing
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:05 am 
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I refreshed the images from copies I saved. Cheers, A


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 Post subject: Re: Stamina testing
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:14 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2008 2:06 pm
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Question:

I have heard the rumor that stamina at 21 and 28 reduce the size of the circle when you tab the view. Is that true?


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 Post subject: Re: Stamina testing
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:40 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 4:00 pm
Posts: 194
Do I read the chart right? The 'AVERAGE DISTANCE as a % of NORMAL DISTANCE' was consistently no more than 1% higher than the bottom % of the range? And even more so at the higher Stamina stats?

If this is the case, the averages would be greatly in your favor to play for the lower % of range all the time, not, say, the middle of the two percentages. ie: 80% ~ 100% range in rough, always take the shot to make distance at the 80%

Thanks,
metbid


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 Post subject: Re: Stamina testing
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:26 am 
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Bump, cause it was the easiest way to point someone to this thread.


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 Post subject: Re: Stamina testing (rough, sand, etc.)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:45 am 
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Bump. User was asking for this thread and it took me a while to find it.


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 Post subject: Re: Stamina testing (rough, sand, etc.)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:49 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 4:00 pm
Posts: 764
Call me crazy... I don't know if it's a game change, club thing, level thing... but rough hardly ever seems to affect my shot anymore like it did when I was a wee lad.


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