CSG Calculator-Systems-Gamers

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Hello Shot-Online Community !

More and more players are using CSG (Calculateurs-Systems-Gamers) in certain tournaments, such as the SOL and its 60 seconds, the WRT and the Match League, and from one day to the next they can miraculously achieve incredible scores, such as -35 to -40 lol! On the other hand, more and more players are talking about it in games, and many players are unaware that systems exist af. The CSGs are within their rights, of course, but I’m also seeing more and more players who no longer have any hope of making a very good score (-20/25), and no chance of reaching a place in a TOP 10, 30, or even higher, and giving up the game for some, or no longer taking part in SOL or WRT. And that’s the problem for this game! Seeing certain influences, less Cyber-Cash, in short, an end announced in the near future. On the other hand, on the SOGA, the 30-second Open League, all the CSGs are not included !
Why not? It’s very simple, when you see them on the stroke tees: they need 35/45 seconds to play, i.e. to write and enter the figures on their calculator-system, and they never pick up the putter to visualise the green and its slopes and to correct the many false winds. As if by miracle !

My post is here so that players from the Shot-Online community can post constructive ideas in turn!

For example, creating levels according to the HC on the courses for some, based on their HC of - 30 / - 40, so that non-CSG players (CalculatorSystemsGamers) can rediscover the joy of playing and without legitimate frustrations, whether on the Match League, so as not to always find yourself face to face each session, in front of the same CSG Legend level, or on the GROUND.

Concerning the WRT, in order to bring together more non-CSG candidates, pass it in 30 seconds every other time, that way there would be a better attendance to play not only putter (the last 2 courses), just to receive the famous boxing .

I return the microphone and invite all good souls to enrich this post in the interest of sharing, saving this game that we all love, for various reasons, playing simply with pleasure, or for some this desire to exist and dominate in Shot-Online life…!

milodelparis
Guilde: Birdy-sur-Seine

PS: at this rate, I’m sure that soon we will see cards at 9 HIO’s over 18 holes

Trade by DeepL

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Hey milo !

Thanks for posting. It’s always interesting to read someone writing definite conclusions and absolute facts about something they have no clue about :wink: And this is not criticism to you directly, it could’ve been you or someone else writing, anyway it’s the result of what all of us hear left and right, that has been building up over the years the collective belief that "any good player must be using a calculator right ? this is not possible from a human :blush: "
Human thinking indeed hates to accept that something that is not possible from their own perspective is possible for someone else. This has led to creating those Valhalla urban myths that have been circulating more and more over the years, including those you mentioned.

So let’s start from the beginning of your post.
If you really want to know what required “Calculator-System-Gaming” to play -40 looks like, this is what I played my Sosori -40s (and also my world record of -42) with:

https[://]drive.google[.]com/file/d/1aiQSJXFGo_LDnTQrqg4l50Nx9owimAp8/view?usp=sharing
(remove the [ ] around the dot and :// , I had to defang the URL as apparently they are not allowed on this weird forum :smiling_face_with_tear: )

Yes, written notes from my practice, how dare I ?
They are no different from the charts the average Joe would use in other circumstances (for chipping, longer % shots, trickshots like Abel #14, even putting charts exist…)

It’s probably less sexy than you might have imagined, but you unfortunately picked the worst example to try to illustrate what high-tech Calculator-System-Gaming tools are capable of, because in this context, they are absolutely useless when it comes to going for -38, -40 or better.

They do help players to reduce their margins of error in general, especially on hard courses, up to a certain level of play.
So, essentially the better you are, the less you’d improve your consistency through Calculator-System-Gaming; to a point where if you’re good enough it no longer helps you, because what Calculator-System-Gaming uses is simple maths that do not adapt to the shot you are facing. So it produces mediocre results in situations where they do not suffice. You might land somewhat close to where you wanted is all you would get.

Also, the common belief that taking more than 35 seconds means being a Calculator-System-Gamer and in 30-second Open Tour you cannot Calculator-System-Gaming your way to victory, is not only wrong but does not make sense because time is variable.
Nobody takes the exact same amount of time on every shot.
If you just consider the amount of time you need to get your % right, this is already a huge variation from a shot to another. Regardless of how and what you use to play.
Not counting that every hole is different, and you don’t need to use all your shot clock on a benign shot as much as on a difficult shot.

You would be then shocked to learn that the 2 best players in the world who have cumulated way over 60% of WRT wins in history (for readers, WRT has always been in 45s), and a few other all-time greats, are “non-CSG players”.
And, that they also smash Open Tour with 30s timer. The same players surely have over 80% winrate in a mode with 10 to 20 players in the room.
Worse so, I believe shorter shot clocks are an advantage to the best players, since experience and great knowledge of every hole makes them saving time that becomes much more precious with 30 seconds than with 45. Everyone plays a bit worse with 15 less seconds, but this negatively affects players who already struggle, more than others.

I feel like I’ve written this dozens of times in the last few years, and I’ve long reached the point where I’m exhausted to read the same things over and over again, but I hope this helps you and other readers to have a better understanding of the topic.

Cheers

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Wow, thank you, so let’s make a 30 seconds WRT just once, and we will see if what you say is right .

You are a SOM , so a have a louder voice, please ask for a 30 seconds WRT just one week please.

So you’ll be able to show to everyone that what you say is right. I’m not agree but i can’t wait to see it.
If you are fairplay you will ask is this way. I thank you :slight_smile:

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cmon man, you should by now that ShotOnline can’t make changes that quick.

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Open Tour exists, and it’s two days a week :slight_smile:
No point to annoy a lot of players with 30s WRT to maybe prove one person wrong with what isn’t even a proof of anything, if you read what I wrote, pace of play does not reflect directly how and what you’re playing with. Also, one can be slow manipulating a sheet or program, another one can be very fast…
Showing that the same top players would dominate just as much in a 30s WRT as in a 45s, would still not prove that many of them play with no tool. Plus, in a single week, you would not get a representative enough sample to come to any conclusion.

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-Je suis un peu comme Saint Thomas, je ne crois que ce que je vois lol
-Concernant le WRT en 30 secondes, je suis près à prendre le pari, par curiosité, car sur L’Open-Tour, je vois certains résultats dans la room, avec des scores pas si glorieux de certains “grands” joueurs…
-Pour finir, que penses-tu de ces fameux joueurs qui ne prennent jamais le putter ?
-Merci de faire vivre ce post, mais je ne v’ai pas partir sur de grands discours techniques ^^

-I’m a bit like Saint Thomas, I only believe what I see lol
As for WRT in 30 seconds, I’m willing to take the bet, out of curiosity, because on the Open Tour, I see some results in the room, with some not-so-glorious scores from some of the “great” players…
-Finally, what do you think of those famous players who never pick up a putter?
-Thanks for keeping this post alive, but I didn’t want to go into too much technical detail …

Saint Thomas :slight_smile:

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Why would you rather believe bold assumptions from other people then ?

And as I said, everyone plays worse on average with 15 seconds less, that’s pure logic. It’s easier to make little mistakes, especially with gauging %.
If you just look at scores, you will often see poor average scoring in Open Tour.

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Hey bud, it’s time to open your eyes :slight_smile, you can’t say you don’t know anymore :

this game is rotten by cheaters.

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Milo and Lechateaudif - stop your unfounded accusations about cheating/CSG.

You both accused me this week - monday, tuesday and saturday.

I´ve been here 15+ years and probably have close to 1 million played holes. I only use my head, I dont have any charts down on paper or 2nd computer.

I´m not even top 25 on this server - so I´m thinking you both might be going ballistic on the even better players.

“If idiots could fly - then this would be an airport”

Best Regards jja1975, ChatGPT, ChatGPT2 - and my other 8 chars.

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Dear jja1975,

thanks for your answer.

You can see the videos on youtube, some players using EZ Shot V3, it’s not an accusation but a proof.

My brain of idiot makes me check the WRT ranking and you appear suddenly with ChatGPT for first time in september 2023, the experience of 15 years and 1 millions holes certainly.

Next time avoid using the term “idiot” about me please, your 1 million holes played should help you.

This post is about calculator, it’s not a tears office.

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Be respectful of this Topic, Mr 1 million holes, and don’t be insulting…

The only thing I can say in response to your post is that it deserves no attention:

I’m never saluted in the game, let alone talked about and accused of anything!
I know “personally”, a TOP Player, k2000, he is in the TOP 32, and he plays with a sheet with some personal figures, he is not a CSG! Total respect.
Read my Topic again and “respect” it, I try in a paragraph “to encourage good souls” to take part, and I try with other members to save what can be before this server reaches the point of no return.

Sois respectueux de ce Topic, monsieur 1 million de trous, et ne sois pas insultant…

La seule chose que je peux répondre à ton post qui ne mérite aucun intérêt:

  1. je ne tes jamais salué dans le jeu, encore moins parler et accuser de quoique ce soit !
  2. je connais “personnellement”, un TOP Player, k2000, il figure dans le TOP 32, et il joue avec une feuille avec quelques chiffres personnels, lui n’est pas un CSG ! Total respect.
  3. relis bien mon Topic et “respect” le, j’essaye dans un paragraphe “d’inciter les bonnes âmes” à y prendre part, et de sauver ce qui peu l’être encore, avant que ce server atteigne le point de non-retour.
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It’s time to learn to read.

Where did I say I did not know about them or they did not exist ?
I literally wrote a full paragraph about them. Do you need another by any chance ?

You’re seeing a nice interface like EZ (cheers DvS), and you’re like “omg so this means all good players use it and are good exclusively because of it”.
But it still does nothing more than the simple maths I mentioned. With their limits.

Think better about it

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Merci pour ce cours magistral Stéphane sur un ton condescendant et cette leçon de philosophie que je ne goûte que très moyennent, mais en tant que SOM il me semble que tu devrais pousser notre demande concernant les 30 secondes plutôt que d’y faire obstacle en avançant moults arguments.
Tu as l’arrogance d’écrire à des personnes plus âgées que toi, qu’il est temps d’apprendre à lire ?
Ton agressivité n’est pas acceptable pour un SOM, je me fais une toute autre image de ce rôle de SOM, pour avoir eu à demander des renseignements à d’autres SOM, de toute façon lorsque l’on te croise en match league par exemple, tu n’as même pas le décence de dire bonjour.
Je ne suis pas non plus assez stupide pour penser que si certains joueurs utilisent EZ Shot V3, tous les autres bons joueurs l’utilisent aussi.
Le sujet de ce post est : Calculator Systems Gamers, et non pas un épilogue sur un cours de lecture, ou une extrapolation de nos pensées en nous prêtant l’idée que nous pensons que tout le monde utilise ce logiciel.
Tu sors du sujet complètement et tu détournes l’idée principale de ce post qui est également de proposer de passer le WRT en 30 secondes…
Si tu ne veux pas le faire, nous n’en ferons pas une maladie, mais cela alimentera encore un peu plus la suspicion …
Le crédit est donné que tu le veuilles ou non aux personnes qui utilisent ce fameux logiciel.
Nous aimerions donc pouvoir à nouveau nous amuser tout en gardant ce petit esprit de compétition qui fait le charme de SO.
Loin de nous de penser que si nous n’atteignons pas de telles performances avoisinant les - 40 sur cad par exemple, cela n’est pas possible pour les autres.
Il ne faut pas transformer notre demande en nous humiliant , et en nous faisant passer pour de boulets qui croient que de bonnes performances ne sont pas possibles ailleurs.
Je vais donc répéter une toute dernière fois notre demande, de manière précise afin que tu puisses la comprendre sans l’extrapoler et y ajouter des guirlandes ou autres boules de Noël : nous souhaitons voir le WRT passer en 30 secondes sur une semaine.
Nous parlons la même langue, je suis certain cette fois-ci que tu auras compris notre demande.
J’ai reçu une réponse très claire du support qui est la suivante “Hello
Thanks for contacting us!
Using third party software that directly affects or controls the game mechanics is not allowed. However, Shot Online team does not interfere use of fan-made ‘Excel’ calculator to facilitate the rounding shots.”
If you have any other question, please ask.
Regards,

Il est donc très clair que l’utilisation de logiciels aidant la performance n’est pas autorisée.

Ma question est donc très simple Stéphane :
Veux-tu relayer notre demande auprès de SO de passer le WRT pour une semaine en 30 secondes ?
C’est pour nous le seul moyen de nous débarrasser des tricheurs à l’instant T.
OUI- NON

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:smiley: intersting (popcorn)

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It isn’t quite clear to me, but from what I read you make a clear distinction between a chart and calculator; you seem to praise one while you despise the other and it’s interesting.

You need to know that all that is required to make a solid calculator for this game is just a chart with parameters where you put 2-3 formulas to save you the mental calculation time.
What’s different between, say a chart where you note for yourself you need to add, for example 5% on your 7 iron per 1m headwind (these numbers are bad, just an example), and another where you also have a little formula in the next cell like “= B2 + 0.05 x A2 x B2” where B2 is the distance and A2 is the wind ?
It’s just doing that little step on the fly while playing or encoding a value in your sheet to not have to think about it. Is it that big of a deal honestly ?

For me the difference is so slim that I pack both in the same case.

Maths that are used in those sheets/software are never more difficult than multiplying, dividing, adding and substracting numbers up to 3 digits or 1 decimal.
To be completely factual, there’s trigonometry in the mix, but you can ignore that step if you just know a few constants. If you’re curious to learn more I can show you, even write a super basic file with you, but that’s up to you, if you keep a defensive approach (and the word is very kind here) like your fellow guildmate, so be it :+1:

And by the way, EZ developed by DvS is just a more convenient interface than an Excel (or other spreadsheet) version, there’s nothing more nothing less.

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This thread is in English, so do at least have the respect to write so that others can read without being forced to copy your brickwall in a foreign language into a translator.
If you want to write me in French, do it in private message, I will read and answer back to you, if you show a less defensive and stubborn approach.

By the way, you’re the one mentioning the word condescending in your first line, while you’re exactly condescendant, if not totally insulting all players on this game who are seemingly a little bit too good for your likes, by treating them like cheaters and whatnot.

Greetings, have a nice evening

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haha this so funny , dont think im cheating hacking or using any fancy stuff , just good old brain power , get a hio once in a while , cant beat good notes on paper

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Do you really think that by lowering the time in WRT, you will put an end to the “cheating” as you call it, why don’t you demand, for example, that the weather be a bit more realistic? Maybe you haven’t thought about the fact that many players have left or are thinking about leaving, to stop spending real money, in a game that is becoming less and less real and more and more like a mere business. Why don’t you look at the list of people who spend the most every week, because for the last year it’s always the same people, and I’m not criticising them for spending their money. Why don’t you claim better events every weekend? Why don’t you demand that the game goes back to its golden years, when the only thing we could level up with was the weekend events, why don’t you criticize the MM system, which is hurting the game so much?

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Finally a post that respects my Topic, ideas and constructive without defending his parish of … !

The only idea, or rather statement, RombinatorR, is that you don’t offer anything apart from a 30s WRT and the Open-Tour results, and your posts are as long as my arm … For a SOM it’s not glorious…

Thank you for the private messages I receive about the game. It warms the heart and motivates all those who don’t dare to play any more because they’re depressed …

Thank you hermanovich for the remaining community (…).

Enfin un post qui respect mon Topic, des idées et constructif sans défendre sa paroisse de … !

La seule idée, ou plutôt affirmation, RombinatorR, est que tu propose rien à part te contre dire sur un WRT en 30 s et les résultats de l’Open-Tour, et tes posts long comme mon bras … Pour un SOM c’est pas glorieux…

Merci aux messages que je reçois en privé sur le jeu, ça réchauffe le cœur et ça motive, tous ceux qui n’osent plus par dépits …

Merci hermanovich pour la communauté restante (…).

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No Milo, neither I support some, nor support others, many times I enter the game to de-stress from the daily monotony of work, I guess like many others here, but I do not want to do it every day more, due to the surreal weather of this game, 18 holes, 14 are with headwinds up to 7 m / s against with cloud or rain, that seems real to you? Is it strange that there are people who get external help? Because it doesn’t surprise me.
I’ve been playing this game for 15 years, and there have always been calculators, in different modalities and I’m almost sure that everyone, and I’m not very wrong, has used the typical chip calculator at some point.
Do you think it’s ok that there are players with HC’s of +28 in fensalir, for example, who are honour pro, and yet they don’t know the course? That they don’t know how to interpret the drop of the green’s when they are going to kick, that they don’t know that the tee’s also influence the shot.
That’s what really worries me.
I can interpret all those aspects of the game and look at them and look at them for 30 seconds and take 15 seconds to aim and shoot, but that doesn’t mean I’m cheating with a calculator, I’m just looking at everything that can influence my shot.
As for the WRT, honestly, I care very little about it, I only play one course and for a weekly mission from Bianca.